There is never any justification for violence. There is no justification for hatred. There is no justification for murder. ~ Seth, channeled by Jane Roberts
Graves of men killed in gunfight at OK Corral
Boot Hill, Tombstone, Arizona, October 26, 1881
Copyright © 2005 by Grombo
I realize that’s a strange title for a spiritual blog and website. Let me explain.
In our small town, a week ago today, two teenage boys shot and killed three people for no reason other than to steal their car. This is a remote Wyoming town, and those things just don’t happen here—after all, the days of the Old West are long gone.
So the whole community is shocked and saddened. All five people involved, the dead ones and the killers, are from the local community, and known by many. One of the killers lives on my street.
The local sheriff said it was “cold-blooded murder.” The three dead people are a mother and father, and their daughter. Left behind were the daughter’s husband and her brother. The brother was quoted as saying they were all the family he had. The teenage boys have been arrested and jailed. The other details are not important.
This whole episode is certainly sad and tragic from a human perspective. The hearts and prayers of the community are going out to everyone affected by the murders. A palpable shroud of sorrow hangs over the town. Wyoming still has the death penalty—or capital punishment. Since the two boys are of legal age in Wyoming, they could be executed for their crime.
Seth, the spirit guide channelled by Jane Roberts, once said, “There is never any justification for violence. There is no justification for hatred. There is no justification for murder.” My spirit guides have always agreed with Seth’s words.
On the other hand, the Abraham group, as channelled by Esther Hicks, has been saying for years nothing can happen to us that we are not a vibrational match to. Again, my spirit guides agree with that.
I don’t dwell on events like this, and spend little time with the mainstream news media. But this happened right here, and just a few days ago. So it’s been on my mind a lot. Here are some thoughts and questions that came to me:
- Did we plan our current lifetimes before we incarnated?
- Was this a soul plan, or an agenda, these five people had?
- We sow what we reap, but does that carry over from one lifetime to another?
- Were the three dead people victims?
- Were the two teenagers villains?
- Were these deaths part of the karma of the five people?
- Is it true, as Seth and my spirit guides say, that violence and killing are never justified?
- Even in the face of this humanly horrifying act, is the death penalty justified?
****************************
In the Tuning In movie my spirit guides said Hitler was a catalyst for good. I know it’s hard to wrap our human minds around the brutality and horror of cold-blooded murder. It doesn’t matter whether it happens to only a few “victims,” as with the murders in my town, or to many millions as in The Holocaust of Hitler’s era.
Copyright © 2013 by John Cali and Berna Copray, revised 2022
In your opinion, is killing ever justified? Please share your thoughts with us in the comments below.
Hatred is a by-product of free will. We are here to make decisions which in turn causes conditions which then require other decisions. This defines, in a way, Evolution. Love-based or rooted decisions, by themselves, would lead to the death of the human race just like the death which comes to water when it loses its possibility of change, like in a swamp given enough time. This is the reason for the ¨Judge not!¨ instruction. Be loving, period.
Love, hugs,
Ron
Great advice, Ron — “Be loving, period.”
Thanks so much!
Love and hugs to you also, dear brother,
John
Condolences to the families involved. Losing a dear one is always heartbreaking, especially if you have no belief in an afterlife.
On the other hand, we as humans place value judgements on events and experiences. We label things good or bad when things happen, when really everything is just an experience. If we consider the old myth of God, then he is judgemental and punishes ‘bad” behaviour, even sending people to hell or purgatory. However, when you consider we are all part of God, including every experience, then how can we label experiences good or bad. I do think we plan some of our attributes pre birth and maybe key experiences, in conjunction with other members of our soul group. The rest is up to us. I think our emotions play a big role in what we create, as well as our thoughts.
Enjoy your travels John!
Thank you very much, Sarah.
It’s always struck me as odd that we humans project on God our own weaknesses and blindness. Someone — I forget who — once said God made humans in His image and likeness, and humans returned the favor. 🙂
Hi John:
I would like to hear the answer to the questions you asked at the end by Spirit/Seth/Abraham. Thanks!
Hi LaTanya,
Those were just questions I asked to stimulate our readers’ thinking. I’m sure different people had different answers to those questions. There are no “right” or “wrong” answers.
so sorry for the tragedy in your community and the shock and loss everyone must feel. I read as many of the comments as I could. I lost a friend to lung disease and after much discussion as to why he said “it is what it is”, those words are always with me.
Thank you very much, Jennifer. I think it can bring much peace into our lives when we just accept what is, as your friend did. I know many people have a struggle with that — I certainly did for many years.
Key words in this ,’teenage boys’
I wonder what their background was and how their lives were up to the shooting
The teenage mal culture is dis eased
Youth need to be given a place in society or at least something to do
Or they go downhill fairly fast, that’s why military service for young men worked in ways
Every time I see a story like this in the news I usually see its young males and in certain areas such as urban overpopulated areas ,which breeds violence and malaise and th youth are especially affected by the culture of violence and nihilism,’there’s nothing to do here for young people’.is a common comment, idle time is the devils workshop they say
The culture reinforced by the media,movies an violent video games all say its ok to kill fo stupid reasons and that life is cheap ètc
I think you hav to look t he roots of These problems
If someone started a group for young people say to get outodoors and explore the area,climb mountains and get active and healthy,and ways to channel their youthful energies
I think it’s best to give young people responsibilities and jobs etc, it gives them a sense of pride,accomplishment and satisfaction so they can prove themselves in a positive way
Rather than becoming pariah that think th pe world is like the violent movies and video games they are sucked into etc
Young people need to be given a Place in society so they belong and are seen in a positive rather than negative way
It’s a pressing issue and needs to dealt with before it gets out of control
As happens with this type of thing
Anyway I hope your community is recovering and coping well
Just to mention gregg Bradens new book ,the turning point ,resilience in a time of extremes
He does great work dealing with and making sense of the world we live in these days
So you can tell us how your travels were when you get back
Good luck
JK
Thanks very much, Joseph. I agree — it can be a tough world for young folks.
Hi John,
I remember this incident and blog post very well. Story Waters discusses this type of situation in what some might see as ‘hard hitting’ detail in this video.
There is a lot of content in it, but one of the things I took from it was the utter futility of the “trial and retribution” attitude.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khXGh98JdVo&list=UUwKpyCvx6n-iDZkhsstGVcg
With love,
Barbara
Thanks very much, Barbara.
I remember us talking about this incident shortly after it happened. I totally agree with Story on the futility of that “eye for an eye” attitude that has poisoned our modern society. Thanks very much for the link. I would urge everyone reading this to watch the video.
Love, John
Dear John,
I have been of this list for many months due to an injury that makes it hard for me to use the computer. But, for some reason, I just received a flurry of resposnes to this BLOG post.
I do not think that that was an accident.
My own learning in this spiritual approach has been that we each come in to experience life differently,and that some of us do plan it all out to the nth detail before birth and for some if us things can be more random so that we can cross into what is others’ “stuff”.
I am very uncomfortable with anyone saying, Well, you know, tragic as it is, it was their plan and they created it for themselves. I consider that neo fundamentalism, imposing one’s own experience and belifs on others and as bad as another religion doing so to outsiders.
It also can be used to deflect our group responsibilty to the whole.
I do not know if these deaths were tragic for the individuals killed but I do know they are tragic for those who loved and lost them as well as for those who did such a violent act.
After such an event we create our own reality by how we CHOOSE TO RESPOND.
Giving in to a need for revenge or violence harms us and our spiritual path.
While it seems sensible to remove those who have proven themselves a danger to others from the larger society to prevent more violence, to kill these souls gains us nothing, damages us, and will prevent them from learning as their years progress to somehow cleanse their own spiritual paths.
All Love and Peace to the damaged families on both sides.
JUDITH MARIE
Thanks very much, Judith.
I agree with you that we cannot impose our beliefs and values on others, nor do we have any right to even try. While people in mainstream religions sometimes do that, so too do those on alternative spiritual paths, such as ours.
I hope you recover soon from your injury.
Hi John, hope you enjoyed your trip and are feeling rested!
What a sad and tragic event. It must have touched many people both near and far. At times like this there is usually a great outpouring of compassion and this must send a powerful ripple of positive energy out into the universe. Sadly it comes with the negative backlash too!
It’s certainly abhorrent to hear about events like this one and it creates much soul-searching. There’s always been murder and violence throughout history but with the event of more and more sophisticated media and channels of information, these events seem more frequent, prevalent and tragic. And with this and forms of entertainment promoting violence ( such as video games for example), some people seem to have become desensitised, even anaesthetised to violence.
It breaks my heart to hear of animals and children who are exposed to violence and suffer at the hands of another. It’s at times like these when I start to question my spiritual beliefs. I do believe that we create our own experiences but not always whilst we are incarnate on the Earth. How could tiny children possibly be in alignment with such suffering? Therefore I believe that we do plan certain conditions and experiences/probabilities before we incarnate. We plan them in our soul group according to what we wish to experience for our own soul growth and possibility the growth of our soul group. Thus there are no victims and villains. We also may plan experiences for the benefit of others.
I also believe that there is only experience. Labelling experience as good or bad is a form of judgement. But from a human level, experiences like this are very sad.
Just my opinions.
Blessings to you John,
Sarah
Thanks very much, Sarah, for your good wishes.
There certainly was a positive outpouring of compassion from this community, and beyond — especially for the families of the 3 people killed.
Some folks even showed compassion toward the two teenaged killers. Wyoming, sadly, still has the so-called “death penalty.” But at the trial the two boys instead were given life in prison with no chance of parole. I know the trial judge personally, and he’s a pretty strict guy. But in sentencing the 2 boys, his final words to them were “May God have mercy on your souls.”
I completely agree with your sentiment “Thus there are no victims and villains.” As my spirit guides often say, there is no “good” or “bad” — just experience.
Blessings to you too, Sarah!
Blessings and prayers to you John and your community. Especially to the loved ones left behind.
Love and Blessings,
Rene
Thanks very much, Rene. Blessings to you!
I tend to think that if someone did a willful murder and has a remote tendency to do more, then its fine to at the least put him away in prison for a long while. I mean after all they already did that to someone else on their own accord. I mean there is no need to feel remorse since we can say he reaped what he sowed. i know he can change but what if he kills another few.
I would rather have it say that his vibration attracted his execution/prison for the crime he did, than letting him free and say some other victim attracted their death through their vibration ….. i mean really?? seriously? … let that guy reap what he sowed… lol
sorry i know this is not a joke.
Thanks very much, Chuck. We all reap what we sow, don’t we?
A lot of thoughtful comments and genuine compassion from everyone – this clearly touches a chord in all of us.
I have two little thoughts to share – First – despite this news and all the other news, this is the least violent time in the history of our planet as we know it.
Secondly – we all have a desire to make sense of life – to give meaning to everything that happens – yet meaning is created by us and there is no meaning without us.
I feel for the people – including you, John – who are touched, saddened, and in shock from this event – it is incomprehensible.
And that is okay.
I totally get that “all we have is now” but I also get that “this too shall pass” – much love to you and your community.
Interesting comment, Dan re this being the least violent time in human history,and as far as we know, it is, despite all the sad things that go on.
I am in the midst of research into the Yorkist Age in England, and the brutality of the period is so intense I have been wondering how they did not all suffer from PTSD, and perhaps everyone did.
rest of my response: A major shift has been in the general thought and our conscious challenge to so much violence.
Tipping points are being reached. Compassion and empathy are more and more the rule of the day.
Judith, I hope you are right that tipping points are being reached – I do sense us getting closer to a world where there will be no need for such events as these – in any event thought I’d share where I first got my info – a ted talk from 2007 – guess I am assuming this is still the case:
http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html
I can also see why I only remembered the main theme. I have a feeling you may have seen this too – but perhaps others might find it interesting.
Dear John,
Love and prayers being sent to you and all those involved. It sure does bring up a lot of questions.
I am thinking that since the law of attraction governs all – so some how the murderers and one’s murdered were a vibrational match. We cannot know how because we cannot know any other’s perspective. I have been able to see it in other stories. When I was starting to learn the LOA (had not given up news at this point) When they caught the one who murdered..I started questioning, how could she have possible been a match to that? And then the reporter interviewed the girl’s mom who said her daughter always feared something like this would happen to her. And that is when I started to understand what they meant by the criminal and victim could match vibrationally. So with the LOA aspect, we cannot know any of their perspectives.
The teens that did this were obviously very disconnected from Source for whatever reasons. If they are executed, they will return to pure positive energy.
It seems we are getting more teens and up acting out in such violent ways which equals a lot of very disconnected ones. I tend to think they have so much access to negative offered with the types of movies, games, stories or hell..just have the watch the news for a week. This don’t even count what abuses they live in their personal lives. I also noted with teens I know..many carry on their relationships almost totally with texting or chatting. This keeps emotions out of the mix. I know of a mother and teen daughter. Almost all their communication was through texting. I thought it was odd because how could they express feelings and such. I pushed the teen to talk with her Mom on the phone and was able to hear them talk. Within less then a minute they were fighting because they both seemed to carry attitudes in their words.They were getting pissed off at each other in a instant. I found it so sad. So I feel the lack of one on one communication and expressing feelings and emotions is a big thing. Which includes lack of compassion. Then they watch these horror shows, have access to horror games and worse…if they see any of the news broadcasts, they probably believe our world is hell. I have first hand seen many parents be absent parents. There are a lot of reasons but these are big ones to me. It is like they are fed so much negative but lack the ability to release their emotions. So many loved that movie the Hunger Games..so I watched it with my daughter. This very popular movie is about 24 teens ages 12-18 randomly selected have to go into an arena ( like an island) and kill each other. Only one winner so all get murdered but one. And those on the outside, this is a big fun event. I was shocked! I am just saying…Teenagers that can do this kind of thing didn’t just wake up one day and decide to do such a horrific deed.
I know this will add more fuel to the gun law dispute and others issues. But I really think society has to WAKE up and see what our kids and teens are subjected to on a daily basis. Instead of everyone accusing every other reason or person..just take responsibility for their own home, their alignment and the alignment of their children..
Thanks John for sharing ♥ Prayers and love sent. This topic leads the mind all over the place, brings up tons of questions.
Thanks very much, Robin, for your thoughts and comments — and, most of all, for your prayers and love.
Love,
John
Hello John
I love Mooji, he is a valuable aid. I practiced Aikido with my son, teaching is very deep and also very practical. My son was attacked at the exit of middle school few years ago. This day there, some young people decided to let off steam on three pupils, without reasons …
I took the time to make letters to the mayor, the director of the school and to the police because nobody reacted. I explained what I thought, I did not file a complaint against these young people, but a social problem report. Obviously, the only result has been patrolling police …
I have long believed that the problem is deeper and the solution is not repression but education. I live alone with my son, now 19 years old. Not always easy especially with the crisis of adolescence. He was playing war games online too. I spoke with him and he told me that he was conscious and I chose to trust him. I feel he has good values despite all the problems of his age. He is passionate about aikido and chose to work creating gardens. I know that through Aikido and nature so he is helped inside.
Last night I opened a book at random Seth, he spoke not to confuse natural aggression with violence born of repressed emotions of guilt. He also said that hatred is to bring us to the love, it joined the Course in Miracles, see the call for help behind the violence sometimes … not always easy.
For me as a woman, I was very happy to meet the spirituality of aikido and work with practice. Focus energy and not considering an attacker as an enemy but as a partner to guide without hurting … but also listen to our intuition and wisdom not to put themselves in situations of aggression.
OK, the world’s problems have only to bring us back to center … at “home”, and unity.
I’m sure your presence John contributes to peace in your city …
Thank you very much, Claire, for your comments, and for sharing your experiences.
Hi John,
You always have to wonder why these tragic events occur and how you feel so sad that lives are taken but for what? My love and posiitve thoughts are with you all in your town John, and hope that there might be some reason behind it as you suggested.
Love and hugs,
Micki
Thanks very much, Micki.
Love & hugs,
John
Yes it is often difficult to direct our focus on what we want rather than what we don´t want.
Yet we have no choice. We cannot unlearn.
I too have made what we would term mistakes in my past. Yet looking back now I can see that what happened could not have not happened. Sorry, I know that is not a popular thought. What is a popular thought is that we are in control and we have a responsibility to choose correct action. There are so-called schools which claim to be able to change a non-conscious being into a conscious being. It is a lie. We can become more aware that we are machines but that changes nothing. It just makes it more painful.
All we can do is to practice loving. Practice, practice and practice more.
Thank you.
Thanks very much, Dan, for sharing.
I think your comment about this being the least violent time in our planet’s history is, in itself, pretty thought-provoking. How often do we humans focus only on what’s “wrong” with the world, and not on what’s right with it? As my spirit guides are fond of saying, there is far more good in us humans and in our world than there is “bad.”
Love,
John
A sad story, I hope the locals are keeping it together over there
Must be very unsettling for everyone
Here in Ireland people often say when something like this is publicised -shootings and all the reports of inhumane ads and crimes , ‘ sure nothing like that happened in the old days’
All this kind of news is reported to a great degree in the media and then you have all of the focus on crime and insecurity that goes with it through the media ,in the news and then bizarrely prominent in so called ‘entertainment’ movies , crime tv series and reports and then crazy video games , tt all surely has an influence on people’s outlook on the world and on others, the potential dangers of strangers etc
I think many people would get vengeful etc of others that might have aggravated us in some way I’d might even get to the point of feeling ‘ i could just kill so and so’
But then to carry it out is a sign of lack of sound morals or judgement or plain sanity
I think a lot of kids today young guys , teenagers are sucked into things like video games and violent movies etc and lose their sense of reality ,they lash out in virtual violence and then when it happens in the real world people are shocked
It seems to be happening over and over again
It’s time we got the message and do something about it
I think real role models are needed for these young people nowadays ,just like Obama said in one of his recent speeches as well as proper education and training to be able to deal and cope with life and its challenges ,mental and physical
I hope the community there is holding up alright ,it reminds me of James redfields book the secret of shambala the eleventh insight where he mentions this subject , how youth becoming isolated and maybe abused or bullied in school and taking it badly and all the other problematic behaviours etc
I hope the neighbourhood there isn’t living in fear or anything
The need for healing and examination of whats gong on etc is acute when things like this happen
But really it is a serious issue that urgently needs to be dealt with
And if people do what they can there might be some light the end of the tunnel
There ar a lot of issues involved , certainly there is an acute awareness of violence and crime in society, the media etc these days
It’s a challenge not to give up on humanity and not to become cynical and closed minded or paranoid with these things
It can also show our shadow, parts of us we are not ready to own that we try our best to avoid because its hard to handle ,collectively and individually
But obviously violence doesn’t solve anything , what you fight you become as the wise men say
I think our job or focus in this is ideally to heal the world and its ails by doing the best we can whenever we can , and looking out and caring for each other as a human family here to experience life in these challenging but momentous and promising times
I hope everybody’s alright over there
I just had an idea
We could hold a healing meditation for the situation ,or at least try to keep calm and radiate peace ,humanity ,harmony and understanding in such situations
Or even just by being kind to strangers and neighbours we can make the world a better safer place to live in
I hope things improve
God bless
Thanks very much, Joesph.
When I first read this, there were no comments yet. I decided to wait until morning to respond. How wonderful all the comments are. I now can shorten my response.
I think those two items in Bartholomew’s response are critical. Whatever events bring up these questions, it is not our job to judge. We can only deal with ourselves. We can add love and light to individuals and the world only when we ourselves live in that love and light. The only answer that we know is what we are doing, thinking, acting on ourselves. The only way we can change the climate of behavior now seemingly predominate in the world is to put every effort into living the life of Who We Really Are.
We do not have to like, love the behavior, but we do need to love the soul of each of our brothers and sisters.
This, of course, does not stop the sorrow and compassion we have for all involved, no matter not having all the answers that might assist us to understand the why of such events. We here in Montana have been listening as well to the tragedy, and the shadow falls on us as well. We are the neighbors.
I so look forward to that coming time when such events will be unheard of.
Love unconditional and blessings to all,
Mikala
Thanks very much, Mikala. Yes, you folks in Montana are our neighbors. So this sad event has cast its shadow over you too.
Hello John. Sending prayers and healing light to your small town. Your post caught my attention because we too here in the small town of Mt. Shasta, just last week, had a wounding situation. A 24 yr old man, walking home from work one night was run over by a car. The driver dragged him 25 feet before he stopped and than drove away. It was late, so it was by “divine degree” that someone even found him there in the dark. Our entire community is on the “hunt” for the person who did this. Luckly, the man survived (or is it?) but he will have months and months of healing to go through and it is being reported that there was a lot of damage done to him that will alter the rest of his life.
In the past I would have asked the same questions. In fact, in the past I have asked them over and over. Now however I have realized the truth of a statement made to me years ago that, “The path to full consciousness is not one of black and white, but one of shades of gray.” We here at this level, with finite minds will never truly grasp what is infinite. That isn’t an insult, it is just a fact. To try to, is to struggle which takes away our peace, our joy.
Another thing to add here is that, for me, these types of questions belong in the days of yore. In all those years we have spent healing and releasing old patterns, making way for the new “wine that will fill our old wine skins.” They were appropriate back then, but now we have all entered a new time, a new world. The past is the old paradigm. It is the “old” way of being, the stuggle, the questioning, the seeking. For me, I believe it is time to stop the questions, stop the struggle. It is time to see everything as a means of balancing. In order for the earth and all life upon her to move up into her new energetic space, everything must be balanced out.
This may sound callous, or even cold, but it is not intended to sound that way. I say this with great compassion for the suffering that follows these events, for I too have experienced these kind of shattering situations and the pain and confussion this kind a thing can cause. I have come to see that everything in this life, this life time right now for all of us, aware of it or not, is one of balancing the books. The books of life. Our lives, past and present. We have no idea what or why or even when, those involved created a need to balance this kind of situation. It is impossible. With that knowing, I have found that it is far easier to let go of the questions and answers and disconnect. To disconnect from the suffering, the confussion and enter into loving compassion. The compassion for others as self. It is there that we can truly help to heal those who are in such pain and loss.
Thank You John for listening. I simply love your posts!
Thank you very much, Kathleen.
Thanks for the great discussion, John.
This is a link to a Mooji video on Who runs the world which I watched just the other day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HttlNxVFnwU
Perhaps it might be helpful…
You’re most welcome, Susan. And thank YOU for the video link. It’s very powerful, and I urge everyone reading this to watch it.
My Dear John,
There are so many lessons on so many levels here, I fear it would take a book, to enumerate them all.
I am not even going to try. I can only offer my prayers for healing and compassion for all concerned, and ANYONE, at any locale who reads this, is a member of the “Concerned”. I do feel that there are mirrors of reflection, as well as of lesson, that are involved here.
This is one of the truly demanding scenarios, that force all of us to look within, and determine what it is that we believe, and what is truly worth living and indeed, even dying for.
Life, in any form, is not a simple path.
Blessings to all.
I AM Conshana
Thanks very much, Conshana, especially for your prayers.
21 amazingly wonderful responses to which there is little to add. One possibility, and maybe a far reach, is all these 5 souls came into this lifetime to make a statement about Gun Control – that being a central topic on the minds of humanity, especially in the USA, at this time.
So many layers to the onion – all necessary for its’ wholeness.
Namaste to all
Thanks very much, Joseph. I had exactly that same thought — these 5 beautiful souls came in to help us with that issue, and probably other issues too.
OOOPS: As part the great mystery, an essential NOT was missing from my initial comment. I do NOT believe that time is sequential and thus think that karma, and other aspects of causality are man made constructs and that the truth is far more complex as well as far simpler.
Very very deep, and I might say controversial question, John. Depending on where one is viewing this play called Life on Planet Earth, the answers could be completely different. I will post two different responses because I’ve felt both ways in this one very interesting lifetime.
Duality responses, or how I used to view things:
• Did we plan our current lifetimes before we incarnated? No. This is all there is. And if it isn’t all there is, then surely I/we must have done something to deserve all the pain and suffering.
• Was this a soul plan, or an agenda, these five people had? Are you kidding? No one would choose this!
• We sow what we reap, but does that carry over from one lifetime to another? Other lifetimes? No. This is all there is. And if it isn’t all there is, then I/we must be atoning for something because no matter what happens nothing seems ever seems to change.
• Were the three dead people victims? Of course.
• Were the two teenagers villains? Of course.
• Were these deaths part of the karma of the five people? Karma? What’s karma?
• Is it true, as Seth and my spirit guides say, that violence and killing are never justified? Violence and killing are part of the human condition, we’re just animals after all.
• Even in the face of this humanly horrifying act, is the death penalty justified? Are you kidding me? Let murderers get away with it?
Now for a very different perspective, what I will call triality (view from Spirit), or Unity Consciousness, and the place from which I now stand:
• Did we plan our current lifetimes before we incarnated? Yes. We are the writer, director, prop maker, actor, and audience for our own experiences, and together for our joint experiences.
• Was this a soul plan, or an agenda, these five people had? Perhaps specifically, perhaps generally, but drawn together for their own reasons? Yes.
• We sow what we reap, but does that carry over from one lifetime to another? If we want to explore that role more, or explore the opposite role? Yes.
• Were the three dead people victims? Victims implies powerlessness. We are all One. We have all the power of our Creator, so no, there are no victims.
• Were the two teenagers villains? For there to be villains there must be victims. No victims means no perpetrators.
• Were these deaths part of the karma of the five people? Karma is a soul level system, not a judgement system, so it’s possible there were karmic connections. There was at minimum agreement to participate in this event.
• Is it true, as Seth and my spirit guides say, that violence and killing are never justified? This is one that each individual must ask themselves. For me personally, killing another is never justified. What happens between other souls making other choices is not for me to say.
• Even in the face of this humanly horrifying act, is the death penalty justified? No victims, no perpetrators. If we believe that killers shouldn’t kill, why then is it all right to kill killers? Which doesn’t mean we turn our backs, but instead love honor and accept the killers and aid them in finding their way back from the far end of hell, just as we love honor and assist the victims to do the same. To me, every act of perpetration indicates a soul lost in the game of duality, a soul who has come to believe in their own powerlessness. I wish for all souls, victims and perpetrators alike, to awaken to the wonder of their own magnificence.
Having said all that, another questions comes to mind: How do we make the shift from “knowing” that that first set of answers is “the way it is” to “knowing” the second set is possible?
For me it’s been tackling the question that I consider to be fundamental to each of us, even if we aren’t consciously aware of it. That question is: “Who am I?”
Even if we don’t accept that we are all One, that’s a question that plagues us all. But in my heart and mind, it mirrors the question that All That Is asked, leading to the expansion and creation of all the rest of us, all us myriad pieces of the One, with all the creative abilities inherent in the One.
Inside the question “Who am I?” are other questions, like “given certain options, what will I choose?” If I feel pain, will I inflict pain on someone else so that I can feel better? or will I find a way to ease my pain myself and leave others unaffected? If I don’t have enough will I steal what I need from others, or will I find a way that doesn’t hurt others to provide for my needs? If I see someone suffer, will I love the one who caused the suffering with equal measure to the one being harmed, or will I seek retribution and harm to the perpetrator?
So to me, all of the experiences we draw to ourselves, no matter how we respond to them, ultimately help answer the question “Who am I?” From that perspective, nothing – absolutely nothing – that we do or do not do, or that anyone else does or does not do, is ‘wrong’ because they all add pieces to the puzzle of “Who am I?” Extended out to All That Is, or the One, we each add to that ultimate expansion.
When we don’t see that we are all actors in this grand play of the One asking “Who am I?”, that’s when we get answers based on duality, based on the play. It’s the contrast that Abraham talks about. Inside the game we need that contrast, it helps us to examine and determine “Who am I?”
When we shift our perspective to outside the game, that’s when we begin to accept that we create for ourselves the experiences that make up what we call our human life.
When we really really see why we create that contrast, then we no longer need, request, or draw that kind of contrast into our lives. Then we don’t have to see people suffer and die in order to experience living, because we’re done with that. “Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.”
It means moving on from Duality and living in Unity Consciousness, where we don’t need to perpetuate suffering, lack, greed, retribution, or judgement because we have, in a way, outgrown it. We see experience for what it is, experience. Instead of seeing victims and perpetrators we honor those who gave their lives and who suffered being perpetrated against, but we also honor those who did the perpetrating because it’s all part of the experience that helps us know “Who am I?”
In this specific case, here are all these people gathering together – not just the 5 involved, or the families of the 5, but the whole community – to experience one form of human tragedy. Ultimately to help each one answer the question of “Who am I?” Who am I when the chips are down? Who am I when I experience pain? Who am I when I lose a loved one? Who am I when I see injustice? Who am I when I’m afraid it might happen to me? Do I respond with love or do I respond with hate? Do I respond with righteous indignation or do I respond with compassion for all involved? Do I respond with trying to control external circumstances so it doesn’t happen again, or do I love and honor each and every soul who suffered so that each of us could add one more experience to the never-ending question of “Who am I?”
Thank you very much, Karen.
There are several different issues here, although some can be combined, I think.
First, I do not think that the death penalty is ever justified as it is the lessening of the whole by acting in vengeance and violence and accomplishes nothing of merit.
I struggled with this in the case of mass murderer Ted Bundy who had been killing women very like me at the University where I did my undergraduate work in Seattle and then came to Florida where I had moved and killed several more, including a niece of my son’s teacher.
Bundy had been arrested before and broken out of jail twice to continue his killing spree, and I can understand the impulse that to execute him meant he could not break out and murder again.
But, if we are to advance spiritually I believe that we must be better than this and not lower ourselves to the standards and behavior of the least advanced among us.
The other issue, for me, is causality. So many of these ideas, including karma, involve time as sequential and I do believe that it is. I believe that we all have multiple threads going on all the time, different versions of the same experiences, and can shift between them with conscious effort and thus experience different results.
We are faced with countless choices and opportunities to see how things play out and to learn.
While I agree with ABE that we attract like through our energy we also have the ability to decide and consciously choose what energies we will put out, which ABE also stresses.
I also believe in free will and a certain randomness – that we can come up against someone else’s stuff and then decide how we will respond to it.
I remember one Seth friend commenting that sad as child sexual abuse was we needed to remember that those children came into this life to have that experience, to which I always said, CRAP.
I see such circumstances as a challenge and an opportunity to say NO, THIS IS WRONG. WE WILL NOT TOLLERATE THIS instead of smugly passing the buck and absolving ourselves of communal responsibility by insisting that people create their own pain and sorrow.
For humankind to continue to evolve spiritually I believe that we need to eschew violence and express compassion.
Thank you, Judith.
There is a book out “The Gospel of Judas” . In it it states that Jesus asked Judas to play the part of a traitor. Christ needed some one to do this horrible deed in order to be sacrificed. So too we need to leave life in a way that is incomprehensible to others and maybe even to our conscious self. Like attracts like, such thoughts that we habitually think call out to those same thoughts and we reap the outcome. Sometimes bad things happen to good people because there is something they want to say and the only way to say it is in a terrible event. Seth also said we choose our death just like we do our birth. What is left behind are questions yet we who are left behind are asking the wrong question. What is their death saying to those loved ones left behind? Tragedies happen for a reason , each person involved knows this unconsciously but in a way we are afraid to look deeper.
Life is eternal, death is but a doorway.
May the reasons for this tragedy become clear to all those left behind. May their eyes open, their heart listen to the voices though gone speak even now. Love never perishes, it goes on and those gone are still quite real, here.
love and hugs
Jeannie
Thank you very much, Jeannie. Love, John
This is such a difficult issue for us mortals. I think that we are not able to see the whole situation. I have read that such dreadful occurrences can actually be sacrificial gifts at soul level as they allow others to develop more compassion and unconditional love. But this is usually weighted heavily on the victim’s side. What of the perpetrator? In the time I spent as a Reiki healer I learned that we all do the best we can at any one time. It may not be what others desire or think is our best, but if we could do better we would. It is unconditional love that paves the way for self-love and love for others. This, of course, needs ‘the right’ people to help the offender and receptiveness in the offender – which becomes a matter of choice for that person. And choice is what this life is about, isn’t it?
We don’t know the life issues that people are working through. I was told of a situation where Sai Baba was asked to heal a young man severely crippled and in a wheel chair, being pushed by his mother. Sai Baba refused saying that the mother had a lesson to learn in this lifetime. Which helped make the principle of non-judgement and acceptance so much more important to me. This is not to say that there should not be punishment. We are all responsible for our choices and have to take the consequences.
My response to such situations is to send love and light to the souls of those who have made their transition and also to those who have caused their deaths, acting from lack of love.
Thanks very much, Elizabeth.
Hello John,
Sometimes it’s difficult to imagine that there are ‘no accidents in life’. The people who see loved ones pass away are the one’s who suffer from perceived separation.
When someone takes another one’s life with such force and intent as with a weapon, it seems so very cruel. There is no difference with war, as it all seems so needless.
We can learn great lessons about life just by observing. Seth stated we have all murdered and been murdered. The karmic wheel turns until we decide we have had enough. Mother Earth has had enough, so we are now journeying into higher frequencies back into a greater unity where love of self and compassion for others is the basis of life.
May light surround all those involved.
Love and hugs,
Jerry
Thanks so much, Jerry. Love, John
Thank you for posting. My condolences to your entire community in such a heavy time! A few thoughts came to mind:
-(Whatever awareness of those individuals involved aside), most people on Earth don’t incarnate to carry the level of conscious awareness depicted in this blog. As you know, to not carry that awareness vastly alters the experience in general, and we all seem to have lived out those lives (“past lives”) often for our own intents/purposes, curiosities, etc.
-Remembering to not live another’s life or presume to know their thoughts, intents, and vibrations – a person’s thoughts and struggles can be quite different than what they may appear on the surface, if they appear at all.
-Focus on your own experiences, thoughts, and vibrations – you will learn more through your own life’s self-awareness than attempting to pilot through the clouds of another’s life – a life you can only observe, not live and know in such detail as your own.
-As difficult as it is, and God is it ever, to not (as a civilian observer) throw judgement and wrath into such a situation as that you described. If nothing more, another example has been made to show the horror that carrying out darkness/heaviness generates. Part of me keeps thinking – we really would do well to learn more from film and theater, instead of carrying them out in the “real world”. I am so sorry to hear of what your town has experienced. I hope the healing reaps more beauty than the experience has reaped pain.
Thank you, Bartholomew, for your kindness.
These questions are very profound John. Sometimes i believe we come into a life with a definite plan of when and how we will die, or at least a time limit roughed out. Free will must have an effect on this in some cases, possibly including this one,and there may be a time when lives are ended prematurely because of unscheduled acts of violence. I recently wondered about the poor woman who died in Delhi as a result of a prolonged gang rape on a bus, and i looked at the outrage it caused and saw the clamourings around the world for law changes and attitude changes, and maybe it was the case that the only way for India to move ahead at this time was for something like this to happen, and maybe the brave soul of that woman did agree to come into a life knowing that this would happen and agreed to it for the greater eventual good that would result from it later on, after the mass of people had gone through the sorrow and guilt and the kind of trauma that changes people. I dont know if that is correct about that particular case, but i do believe in the case of Jesus, that he knew full well how it was going to end for him long long before he was even arrested. But in the case of a killing like you describe, where no great law change will take place, and perhaps only one or two people will learn from it, i personally think it is too great a price to pay for such a seemingly limited lesson, unless there was karma to be repaid.We can only guess at which one of those reasons that you listed is the true one,and for sure it must vary each time a person is killed.I think you said yourself that there are no accidents, so if that is true then we have to assume that this was a karmic debt being repaid, and perhaps also it means a karmic debt was being created by the killers for themselves, while it was being paid back by the vitims with their lives.Ultimately It is truly too complex for me with my human brain to understand from this perspective at this time.
Thanks very much, Steve.
I’ve listened to Esther Hicks/Abraham for over a decade. Every time I hear a story like this (usually in the news), I have the same question: “What kind of thoughts/energy did the victims put out there that attracted this kind of violence?”
Was it years and years of worry, and fear of crime that brought crime to them?
I wonder the same thing when I hear of a home burning down…what belief systems did that family have, that caused a fire to manifest in their lives?
Folks who don’t understand the law of attraction would think these are crazy questions. But when you believe that “nothing can manifest in your life without your invitation of it, by thought” (a common Abe quote), then you have to ask these questions.
Like you, John, I’m aching for some very specific answers, in fact, real examples of the exact kinds of beliefs/thoughts that could draw this kind of violence to someone. I want to know, of course, so I can stay away from those thoughts, but also so I can better understand this world we live in.
Thank you very much, Nancy.
I’m so sorry for the violent tragedy that struck your community, John. I sure wish there were easier answers. Whether karma, soul plan, whatever, we’re not ever likely to know. One possibility that occurs to me is that those people, all of them, might be “volunteers,” people who offered to participate in the event so as to draw attention to things that humans need to figure out how to correct. After all, unless enough terrible things happen, people generally won’t feel the necessity of change. Maybe that’s a bit facile, but it’s at least possible. My thoughts and prayers are with you all.
Thanks very much, Sam, for your thoughts and prayers.
Hi John,
I’m new to your website and newsletter. I discovered you when I came across the movie “Tuning In”. I watch it all the time. I was already very familiar with Abraham and Bashar, but was happy to discover “Spirit” and even more channeled non-physical entities to learn from. What a goldmine of information!
Anyway, I readily accept that we all create our own realities and nothing can come into our lives without us being a party to it or giving thought to it. But, the hardest thing for me to wrap my mind around is the idea that there are no victims, only willing participants. But yet, every single non-physical entity in the movie was in complete agreement on this.
I think it is hardest to accept when you see something horrible happen to children or a situation as you describe in your article.
I used to be a firm believer in the death penalty, but now it just seems like it is only perpetuating the limiting beliefs we hold as humans that keep us from expanding and moving forward.
I’m sure that from the non-physical perspective the human race is quite a spectacle to behold. It seems like we are Hell-bent on clinging to our limitations at all cost. However, it’s very encouraging to see more and more people waking up to the fact that we are capable of being so much more through the gift that you and others are sharing with us.
Thanks,
Jeff
Welcome, Jeff — we’re delighted to have you with us! And thank you for your comments.