A few weeks ago, Berna and Spirit had a discussion about the question of what is real, and what is illusion.

Berna and Spirit

On the subject of reality and illusion, I thought I really had it clear with all the reading I have done. But recently I’m confused about it again. So what is really real in the material world we see? I know our perception forms the illusion—the idea we are separate is an illusion.

But the material world itself, like the trees and the mountains and the chairs we make, and the bicycles, the material stuff—is that all real or is it also an illusion?

No, it’s not an illusion. It’s real. But you have to understand this from a more physical, or human, standpoint. Your scientists will tell you…everything is made up of energy, no matter how solid it may appear to you.

It’s really not solid. It’s made up of molecules and atoms—all the things scientists talk about. So if you are vibrating at a very high level, as your spirits are—you can reach this high level of vibration while you’re still in a human body. When that happens, you will literally be able to walk through walls, for example.

So it’s a matter of vibration. There’s nothing illusory about what you perceive as physical reality. It’s real. It’s just not real to the extent you think it is—or that your human or Western society has brainwashed you into thinking it is.

As we said, it’s really a matter of vibration. That’s all. The higher the vibration, the less dense these so-called physical objects will appear to you. As we just said, you will literally be able to walk through walls once your vibration is high enough—and while you’re still in physical form.

Yeah, that’s a really good one.

And then the dream and illusion that Jesus (through channels like Tina Spalding, Gina Lake, and Jayem) talks about a lot is the idea that we think we are separate from God. And that is something that is just not possible.

Exactly. It’s not possible. Separation is the illusion because it’s not real. It doesn’t exist. It’s (only) in your human perception that it appears real. But it is not real, as you said a few moments ago.
We’re all one. And so the real illusion that humans deal with is that of separation.

Copyright © 2022 by John Cali and Berna Copray
Edited by Berna Copray


In this video, American actor Jim Carrey asks the eternal question, What is real?

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